I am at my wits end..

Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby hvorfordetda » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:46 am

Pingpong:

You behave yourself like a kid.
You want a genuine item, but don't want to buy from Jye because they are too expensive. Jye says Banggood is genuine, but you don't trust it.

:?: :?: :?:
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby Pingpong » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:09 am

Wow, It usually takes longer for the name calling to start hvorfordetda. If that is how you deal with an issue so be it, I will not demean myself by engaging in such behaviour.

Anyway, I fail to see your logic. It seems like I am a dumbass for buying off eBay. As I previously mentioned: "The second time I bought a DSO 150 off of eBay, I asked the seller if the product was genuine before I bought it. They said it was but I still received a fake. Both times the pictures in the listings were of a genuine DSO." To clarify, this happened long before I knew that they sell them on Banggood.

Is Banggood like eBay? Are there multiple sellers or is it one store? If you browse their website there are often several listings for the same item and each one has a different price. Take the DSO 150 for instance. There are three listings, one is for a complete DSO 150 and the other two are for the kit version. One of the kits is on special offer and costs much less than the one that isn't. Is the more expensive one genuine or is the cheaper one? If I pay more do I get a genuine DSO 150? If I buy one from JYE Tech directly, it would seem so. If the Cheap one on Bangood is genuine, am I a fool to buy one from JYE Tech? If I buy a fake from Bangood, am I guaranteed a refund? Is Bangood truly the only source Of DSO 150'S, just because JYE1 says so? The foolish thing would be to part with my money at this point.

And so on. We can argue about these things until we are blue in the face and get nowhere. The main point I hope we take away from this is that JYE Tech's business model is unsustainable. There is no way to truly guarantee you will get a real DSO 150 unless you buy from the JYE Tech store. The price set there is hardly competitive. There are no genuine stores on eBay or Amazon. If you buy a fake, you can't update the firmware because it will brick the device. Even if you don't update the firmware the fakes are not built to a good enough standard, as far as I can tell.

Well here I am, any constructive feedback is welcome. All I want to do is pay a reasonable price for a genuine product. Does that make me entitled or a kid?
Of course not, any reasonable person anywhere should expect no less.
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby alphaseek » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:17 am

Banggood is one store. The three DSO150 items there are different products. One is completely assembled, and there are two different kits, one with the surface mount parts already installed, and the other with nothing pre-installed. The 15001K is the cheapest, has the SMD stuff already installed, and is the one everyone else has bought.

I've given you all the information and help I can offer. You can buy the Banggood kit or not. Your decision.
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby Pingpong » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:50 pm

It looks like I will take a shot at the Banggood option then. I noticed that I can pay with Paypal. That may offer me some sort of protection if the goods turn out to be fake. I will order one this evening.

Seeing as I am a responsible human being, I will report back here when I receive the DSO 150.
If the item I receive is genuine etc, it will be important that I leave that feedback. It is a good way to fight the fakes and will further reinforce that Banggood sells genuine products. Let's just hope that it doesn't take months to arrive.
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby jye1 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:04 am

@ Pingpong:

First I am very sorry for so late being here. Yes I'm at travelling. But I check the forum as frequently as I can and usually less than every two day. alphaseek informed me your complaint but I kept looking in the tech sections. It just becomes habitual for me to look at the tech sections only since the "Complaints & Suggestion" section has been calm for very long. I asked alphaseek again for your complaint and only read the your posts above after he told me. Again, my apologies for overlooking your posts.

I understand how frustrated you were at getting two fake kits consecutively. I hope the platforms that host the fake product sellers can hear your complaints. Most fakes kits are sold on AliExpress and eBay. AliExpress is the worst. We have issued numerous fake confirmations to help users to win disputing. AliExpress ignores most of them. It protects fake product sellers because it cares more about the profit it gets at each sale. eBay is not much better. We have received many reports of fake kits purchased on eBay. Recently we also saw fake DSO Shell's start appearing on Amazon.

We have spent a lot of time fighting counterfeiting. The measures like unique random ID and activation code do restrict the spreading of fake kits to some extend although not 100% eliminate them. At the same time we make sure genuine kit buyers can enjoy guaranteed support and services.

Banggood has been sourcing their kits supplies from us. The reason we are hesitate to openly recommend it to users is that they have many divisions and we knew some divisions do sell fake products. But as far as DSO Shell and DSO138 kits are concerned we haven't received reports that anyone got fake kits from Banggood up to now. So it is safe to buy these kit from Banggood.

We have a store on AliExpress where price of DSO Shell was lowered (not as low as Banggood though). This is the link https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3213139

Now it looks you have ordered at Banggood. You should get a genuine kit. I will be waiting for your feedback. Besides posting your feedback here you can also reach me at jyetech@163.com if you have any questions.

By the way, I would like thank alphaseek and hvorfordetda for explaining my situation and offering helpful suggestions!
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby Pingpong » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:13 pm

Hi jye1,

Thanks for the reply. I would have gone with Banggood anyway, just for the possibility of having PayPal cover.

The thing I appreciate the most about the DSO 150 is that even though it is not much more than a learning tool or scientific toy, it is built to tight specifications. I noticed the smd resistor and capacitor values on a close up picture of the mainboard which I saw on a forum. I looked some of those values up and the components are +-1%. I checked the fake and the same components are +-5%. I can't see the fakes being able to get accurate readings due to that much variance in the capacitance and resistance in the circuit.

Anyway, I will leave it there for now and post my experiences once the DSO150 arrives. The more people who know where to get a genuine the better.
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby hvorfordetda » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:26 pm

Pingpong wrote:

Well here I am, any constructive feedback is welcome.


.
One place to start, is to re-read all of your previous posts in this thread. You make a lot of noise about almost everything.

Why complain about getting a fake unit here? It's not jye's fault that you got cheated.

Why complain about Chinese new year? You say you are from Europe. In Europe we celebrate Christmas, New year, Easter and Whitsun and alot of other holidays depending on where you live.

Why complain about the price of a genuine unit? That is the price they want to sell it for. They sell genuine products. As you have experienced by yourself, fakes has some disadvantages regarding build quality. But - jye also say you can get a better price from Banggood. But that was wrong too...

If shipping from Banggood to your location takes 60 days, it has nothing to do with Banggood. They are speedy compared to most other Chinese shops. I have received almost 100 parcels from them over the last two years, and most of them are less than 2.5 weeks deliverytime to Europe. Only one has been more than 4 weeks. You should complain to your customs if Banggood takes 60 days.


I do fully understand jye when it comes to fakes. I have been involved in electronics manufacturing in China, and been badly burnt. I guess jye has enough trouble getting hold of genuine parts for his own products.

You want to get the absolute lowest price possible, but it does not seem like you see the connection between razor thin margins and fakes.

If jye find his price to be OK for what he want to get out of this business, we can say or think whatever we want. We will be wrong, and he right.
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby RobNL » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:32 pm

If there is enough fake, the price of original will rise ......
CU, Rob
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby Pingpong » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:51 pm

Well hvorfordetda you seem to be taking this matter personally. I don't understand why.
Anyway, let me break it down for you.

One place to start, is to re-read all of your previous posts in this thread. You make a lot of noise about almost everything.

I had an opinion and I expressed it. You seem to be trying to make me out to be some sort of spoilt western child. Customer service and business practices should be held to a standard no matter where you are in the world.

Why complain about getting a fake unit here? It's not jye's fault that you got cheated.

No. But it is JYE's fault that my fake unit was bricked. I didn't know I had bought a fake and flashed the genuine firmware. It came up with the "fake board message" once and every time I boot it now it just shows a white screen. I even tried flashing the "open source" firmware that is available for it, to no avail. I am just going to use both the fakes for spares. As I pointed out, they are too shoddy to be of any use. Only the screen and buttons seem to be good enough. Even the rotary encoder is crap.
I can understand trying to protect your business interests but history has shown that consumers end up turning on companies that brick fake products. I previously pointed out an example.

Why complain about Chinese new year? You say you are from Europe. In Europe we celebrate Christmas, New year, Easter and Whitsun and alot of other holidays depending on where you live.

Yeah, we all have holidays. I respect that. As I mentioned I dealt with a Chinese seller when I had my eBay shop. While the business world pretty much grinds to a halt over there during the new year, he was always replied to my emails. He was not an anomaly either. He said most people he knew and worked with were the same.

Why complain about the price of a genuine unit? That is the price they want to sell it for. They sell genuine products. As you have experienced by yourself, fakes has some disadvantages regarding build quality. But - jye also say you can get a better price from Banggood. But that was wrong too...

I was unsure if Banggood was one store. JYE1 clarified it for me. To quote him "Banggood has been sourcing their kits supplies from us. The reason we are hesitate to openly recommend it to users is that they have many divisions and we knew some divisions do sell fake products." As he says Banggood has many divisions and some sell fake products.
I complained about the price because the supposed genuine DSO 150 on Banggood was nearly half the price of the one in the genuine store. To be fair it was on special offer but at the full Bangood price it is still roughly 1/3rd cheaper than the genuine store.

If shipping from Banggood to your location takes 60 days, it has nothing to do with Banggood. They are speedy compared to most other Chinese shops. I have received almost 100 parcels from them over the last two years, and most of them are less than 2.5 weeks delivery time to Europe. Only one has been more than 4 weeks. You should complain to your customs if Banggood takes 60 days.

I really don't know about that. I have had products arrive from China within a week (probably drop shipping) to nearly 3 months. As a seller, I had to send tablets back to China for repair. One took nearly 6 months to return!

I do fully understand jye when it comes to fakes. I have been involved in electronics manufacturing in China, and been badly burnt. I guess jye has enough trouble getting hold of genuine parts for his own products.

Amen brother, you are preaching to the converted lol. :D
My eBay business ended when the "china tablet" market collapsed. Just before that, with the help of my buyer in China, I approached a manufacturer to make a custom tablet for me. We agreed on specs, they sent me a sample and it was just what I wanted. There was no retooling or redesigning required. It was pretty much soldering a mobile data chip and sim card slot (which were optional extras, to the motherboard of a 7-inch tablet that was only sold in China. Thanks to my mans negotiating, they let me buy an initial shipment of 100 units. The snag was, I had to pay up front. When I got the pallet home and opened a box, my heart sank. Every single one was not the tablet I agreed to. They were much lower spec than agreed and didn't have mobile data capability. I emailed my guy in China and he was not pleased. He rang the manufacturer up and got no reply. He then drove out to their factory later that week only to find the floor they worked out of was empty. I have no reason to doubt his word. He always dealt with me honestly and did his best to get me good deals on quality products. Anyway, in China, it turns out that you can temporarily hire everything from your labour to the machinery assembling your product. Once you are finished you can literally pack up and move on, never to be seen again if you so wish. I lost some cash and learned a harsh lesson.

You want to get the absolute lowest price possible, but it does not seem like you see the connection between razor thin margins and fakes.

I don't get the razor-thin margins reference seeing as Banggood can sell a genuine item for roughly a third less than JYE Tech can. As RobNL points out, If there are enough fakes the price of the original will rise. The price will probably rise exponentially. How is that fair on the consumer?
I just want to pay a fair price for a genuine product. Sourcing all the quality parts you need is not difficult in China if you know the right people. If you are buying in bulk, the prices are low too.

If jye find his price to be OK for what he want to get out of this business, we can say or think whatever we want. We will be wrong, and he right.

It's not a matter of wrong or right. All I have been doing is pointing out fact that this business model is unsustainable.
Soon, JYE Tech will just be a footnote in the history of Chinese businesses that have tried and failed. Which I find rather sad. All they have to do is set up a genuine store on eBay, Amazon and aliexpress in both Europe and the US. Set a reasonable price and word will soon get around where the real product can be bought. The fake sellers will start to melt away.

That is only my opinion. I know China is a large market and may keep JYE Tech afloat for a while. Most people over there don't seem to care whether they get genuine or fakes. It's only a matter of time before the firmware is cracked and the bricking issue is bypassed. People will continue buying the cheap fakes until JYE is forced out of the market. There is a large chunk of change to be made in the western market and to ignore that fact is folly.

As you pretty much pointed out, It is up to JYE to get what he wants out of his business and what we say will probably not change that. I have an opinion, I expressed it and hopefully he will consider some of what I have said. If I were him I would get in contact with the CEO of Fiio and ask him for some business advice. That business makes a quality product with low margins and makes a large profit. They have had their fight with fakes too.
Honestly, it would be a shame for JYE Tech to fail. Unfortunately, the writing looks like it's on the wall...
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Re: I am at my wits end..

Postby Pingpong » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:30 pm

After replying to the above message, I would just like to say that I received two DSO 150's from Banggood today and they are genuine. I ordered them on the evening of the 26th of February so they only took 8 days to get here! I am absolutely astonished. I ended up buying two, just on the slim chance were real. I guess the gamble paid off!

I bought the 15001K kit version which has all the SMD components already soldered in place. Here is the Banggood link: https://www.banggood.com/Orignal-JYE-Tech-DS0150-15001K-DSO-SHELL-DIY-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-With-Housing-p-1093865.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN
They are on sale until the 20th of March, if anyone is interested.

I have also taken some pictures for confirmation. I used Paint to crop the photos and also to blank part of the sticker on the main board. I didn't know if revealing the full barcode and "serial number" would help the fake manufacturers in any way so thought it best to blank it partially. I can provide the un blanked photos if required.Image

Image

Image

The screen print on the boards as well as the quality of the boards and parts are like night and day compared to the fakes. Unfortunately, the pictures aren't too clear. In person the difference is massive.
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